As the dust begins to settle and our emotions start to wane, it’s important that we begin to try and find out why this has happened. Not only did we lose a presidency we should have won by a landslide, but we lost many of the state races that let in some of the most radically left politicians our country has ever seen. After sifting through the great emotional impact this loss has had on all of us, I have realized that it can only be attributed to one thing: We have lost our ability to connect with the people. Several of the GOP’s issues need to reworked in a major way. We have to keep God out of politics.
Listen, I love God. I may not be the holiest person, as many of you know, but I have accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior. However, I do not think it is appropriate to use him as a pawn in our political arguments. Take it from a person who has won many debates against liberals who are just waiting for you to pull the religion card: If you use religion, you will lose. We have to become more lenient and we need to adopt many libertarian policies and messages.
My biggest issue is with God and gay marriage. I abstained from voting on the gay marriage amendment in my state, because, though I wholeheartedly agree with equal rights among all people, I just as equally disagree with slapping a Band-aid on a much bigger issue. Approving gay marriage state by state is addressing the symptom, not the disease. The disease is in the tax code. The disease is the government being involved in any union between two people. Many people in the gay community argue that they deserve the same tax breaks as married heterosexual couples. I don’t believe those tax breaks should exist. There should be no monetary incentive to spending the rest of your life with someone (just as there should be no monetary incentive to produce more children). I am a proponent of civil unions in the courts, and ceremonial marriages being left to the churches. This is an argument we have to adopt if we’re going to win the gay marriage debate, and we have to mean it. Our first order of business should be completely rewriting the tax code.
Abortion is another issue that the GOP has serious problems with. We have to stop arguing against abortion and it’s immorality. It’s just simply not working. We have to adopt the Libertarian agenda here, but we have to be able to explain it so liberals can understand. So many people who don’t understand think that overturning Roe v. Wade will ban all abortions. This is a horrible misconception. We have to be champions of the Tenth Amendment. I, and most Libertarians, believe that abortion should be an issue for the states to decide individually. Let’s face it, it’s very unlikely a state would overturn abortion, because it would be financially devastating to the state. But if it did, it is the right of the people to vote with their feet. If the states were able to compete like businesses, the most fiscally and socially responsible businesses would be the most successful and would serve as a guide for other states. Overturning Roe v. Wade will not ban abortions, it will expand freedom.
The biggest issue in the GOP is arguing faith instead of logic. Many, including myself, can understand why Mourdock would get the idea that a child conceived as the result of rape is God’s will. I believe he was sincere in his answer, however, this is not even close to being an appropriate argument for a politician to use in the public sphere. It was political suicide the minute he said it.
We have to stop arguing faith or we will lose. Faith is not logical. It is not rational. It is not comprehensible by most. Our country has become increasingly secular and it is our job to adapt to those changes. Not abandoning faith in our hearts, but arming ourselves with a better weapon than “God says it’s wrong.” Arguing against gay marriage “because it’s in the Bible,” or against abortion “because it’s murder” is always a losing argument. Regrettably, this isn’t 1980 anymore. We have to use our logic and step back from the emotional debate that helped win this election for the other side.
It’s time to take a long, hard look at reality. Obama did not win because of his record. The GOP lost because of its inability to frame the argument in a way that is palatable to Independents and Libertarians. We have to reshape the debate, or we will continue to lose elections.
Jessica Chasmar 
Well said, Jessica. I would go as far as to say that anything involving Roe v. Wade should be removed from the GOP’s agenda entirely. The GOP has had decades to get over Roe vs, Wade. Now would be a good time to decide if its worth mortgaging the party’s future to continue that fight. It has been used as fear-fodder in every election as long as I can remember.
As for your general message of “keeping God out of politics,” I couldn’t agree more. We have a separation of church and state, and if the GOP is going to restore itself to the party of “limited Government,” it needs to embrace this idea.
Separation of Church and State was put into place to protect the Church from the Government. Our country’s foundation, Constitution, Bill of Rights are all based on Biblical principals and values. I am not so sure the majority of this country supports abortion and according to polls they don’t support gay marriage although that is changing quickly. I do think that people buy into the political spin on these arguments and more effective education of the issues is needed.
For example the election issue about Planned Parenthood was totally taken out of context. As I understood the issue when Romney brought it up, it was about the millions of federal dollars supporting this non-profit organization which shows on its most recent public books almost a million dollars in profit with the CEO making a half of million dollars in yearly compensation. The dems spun and many people bought that this was an issue threatening women’s rights. God says My people perish for lack of knowledge.
Take the spin away and call abortion a woman’s choice to legally commit murder. Say it loudly and say it consistently – draw the line. I think a majority of women will rise up and be offended that a political party is trying to define and manipulate them with such a shameful label.
You hit the nail on the head!!! ~jeb
Many very good points, good job!
Totally agree- we can not and should not legislate morality. Morality is between GOD and his people. This is kinda like the benevolent liberal – if its a good idea they want the federal gov’t to pay for it – but we should ask “at what cost”? Same thing with moral issues – abortion, gay marriage, etc…..
Thank you well done. Do you think the Fluck (spell?) and screwing with the Catholic church re: birth control/ insurance issue was all a plan on the Dem part?? To your point if I understand you with religion it’s an argument you’ll never win. They threw the bait and we chomped on it. I hate to admit it they outsmarted us and ran a better show.
Maybe we learn. Maybe.
@ Paul Hagan “the bait” is right. Tactically, this was a good way for the Dems and their shills to distract from the important principles conservatives want to promote. We must learn to deliver the information in a way that is understood, rather than as a challenge or reaction to their prodding stick.
I don’t disagree with the general idea here. I don’t think the GOP needs to change its position on these religiously charged issues but the delivery of the message may need some work.
It’s obvious now that a majority American people support things like abortion and assisted suicide and government dependence. Somehow the GOP needs to reach those people and show them what conservatism can do for them… I’m not sure how to do that…
Also, damien, separation of church and state isn’t really about keeping God out of politics as much as it is avoiding a religious litmis test for people to be involved in politics but I agree with your point.
Agreed with most of what you had to say. However, I’m not so sure about focusing on the repeal or decisions on Roe vs. Wade is something worth making a major platform issue. Yes, it would just leave the decision to the states, but it would be framed in a very negative way and would probably, as a platform issue, be a loser.
When your debate opponent has already defined the concepts as in the sense of Zygote and “product of conception” the battle is already nearly over. Addressing abortion as a “bad thing” only fuels the liberal/progressive mindsest. The logic is that mentioned elsewhere in this thread – that children are needed to help bear the burdens of the human race.
We need to change the definitions from an abortion being a minor remedy to being a major decision and this must be done when the people listening are very young – not when they are preparing to have an abortion or getting ready to perform one.
Morality is a viewpoint of a culture and our culture generally sees abortion as amoral or outside of the realm of morality. If we ever hope to limit Roe v. Wade further, we need to make a better, less emotional, less “moral” argument.
I would only add two other issues to you thoughts:
1, legalize pot. You cannot logically argue for a limited govt and not agree with that movement. Yes it may not be a great idea, but all steps to freedom builds a ladder of success.
2, term limits . And I can’t overemphasize this one. Adopt the movement and win forever.
Ed: You are welcome to your thoughts, but there are legitimate reasons for Marijuana being considered a class one (contraband) drug. In spite of the arguents to the contrary, it can cause physical damage to people and because the strength cannot be regulated (like Heroin it is uncontrollable) it cannot be generally used in a clinical setting with a certainty of repeatable results.
Regarding term limits: isn’t the restriction of length as limiting as allowing no limit? As related to free speech – if the citizens of the United States want a certain politician to serve longer, should not that right exist? The power and right of the people to vote should promote market based change. It is just unfortunate that we conservatives were not on the winning side of the marketplace this time. Apparently, our argument for changes toward conservative principles were not persuasive enough.
I’m 60 and grew up in a different world from today’s. However, when I woke up this morning stewing about the election, I had the exact same thoughts about the GOP and religion as you have written about here. Conservatives need only focus on one thing – prosperity. Jobs, business, energy independence go with that. Let’s leave religion out ot the platform, as well as personal lifestyle choices. I voted in favor of gay marriage here in Seattle because I couldn’t care less about it. It will give the lawyers more income handling the divorces. I voted against legalizing weed to keep the money out of the hands of the government and flowing freely in the economy. Everyone I know who wants weed has some. Great post Jessica – let’s hope the idiots on the right “get it”.
Jim: I appreciate your passion, but I must say that prosperity, while important, cannot be the only focus. It may in fact be the reason why this election was lost to the Republicans. Think of the math: 100% of able workers less 8% unemployed = 92%. Subtract another 8% thereabouts for under-employed and that takes it to 84% of people that have jobs where they choose to be employed. These people are as prosperous as they choose to be right now. If half of them are “R’s” and half “D’s” (give or take some independents) then only maybe 12 to 16% of Americans have a deep concern about the lack of prosperity in spite of the fact that it is still a problem. Many are more worried about next month than the direction of the nation. And harping on “Obamacare” is not necessarily the answer either – even though many of us on this thread will likely agree that “O-care” will impact our prosperity.
Unfortunately, our children have been taught for years that ambition and greed is a part of the “root” evil that is “money.” We need to identify ways to restore ambition in the best sense of the concept in our nations citizens, because without ambition, our tax base is depleted, revenues fall and foreign aid cannot be sustained (as an example.) Besides only the Love of money above other things is an evil behavior.
Well spoken as usual Jessica. Lets hope things change however I believe things will get much worse before getting better. The next 4 years will put us all to the test. Keep up the awesome work. I look forward to reading you stuff and follow on FB and Twitter. Hint ur friendly closet stalker LOL. Be safe and keep up the great work and words.
Excellent verbalization of my feelings today.
Here again is someone trying to align themselves inside the ranks of Republicans with terrible ideological sharp criticism of that party. Why do radical thinkers of this nature condemn the Republican party? For centuries,even since the founding of this great nation, have leaders stood strong for God and virtuous values of Judeo-Christian faiths. History proves itself that people (and nations) who partake of wretched sinfulness will ultimately face demise. This is a house divided. Moral relativism wins the day. Unfortunately, if Republicans want to march to the drum beat of that, as with the Democrat Party, there will be rapid decay for this nation. Decadence and dissipation will win. I look at the master of truth (Jesus Christ) and his ideological talk. Give unto Caesar that which is Caesars, and unto God that which is Gods. Governments are set up and taken down solely at the ultimately direction of God. If God chooses to permit Democrats to rule so be it. My faith and assurance will remain with God.
Leon – I think that while the philosophical underpinnings of the American Revolution mirror Judeo-Christian thinking, they are expressed in a pretty secular way. One should always view with suspicion those who ascribe human attributes, such as direction or choice, to God. God gave us Order and Free Will. What we do with them is up to us.
Leon:
As a melting pot of many faiths and cultures we cannot appeal to all in a purely Judeo-Christian manner and expect them to respond or even acknowledge, much less agree spontaneously out of a faith they do not share. If we cannot base our faith and belief and express it in tangible and logical ways, it only looks like mysticism and more of the same to those who are not believers in Jesus Christ. Faith in God and Jesus’ saving, graceful gift is in itself a gift and not something we can impart by our own acts or speech – it comes from God working through us. Not from us claiming a higher moral ground than some other religion. The stock response from the unbeliever is generally the same to Christiandom, Islam, Judaisism, etc.
What we must recognize is that in His wisdom, God has seen fit to allow the Republican campaign to fail. This is not due to Him, but a lack of voters voting for “Our” man (even though some Christians might debate the theology of the Latter Day Saints (Mormonism.) If we seek a reason for the “why” for this election failure we surely cannot blame God. I also do not believe that we can blame Conservative though, Republican effort or Christian values. We can, however, make a case to say that the argument for the republican candidate was not enough to capture enough votes and that is not a religious argument.
This is the main critical problem with alternative religious views. Or even anti-religious views. So much of ideological universal ideas and critical thinkers are that you have to have absolute answers to everything that breathes, moves, or exist (both organic and non-organic species). That is the complete fallacy and super-subjection to the “HIGHER” intelligent minds of human kind. They are the gods of humanism and promote their idolatry. Well, sir, my experience is real too. And I have made a conscience and personal decision to magnify the supreme and Holy God. If that decision comes at a cost to my identity and thinking, I really don’t care. Because, sir. the answer is quite simple, This is the moral high ground. The complete and ultimate Truth is that God wins in the end. Not super human and “free” American ideology. This experience of true freedom is deeply personal built truly on the ideals of sacrifice. The complete and bloody sacrifice of Jesus Christ, who was is and always will be King of Kings and Lord of Lords. There is no other religion that supersedes that person-hood.
American political system has always been that we have party affiliations all to our own choosing. It does not mean that there can only be two party systems. As I recall there were actually 4 candidates vying for the presidential office on the ballot. But it seems there is this sacred political dogma that either only a republican or democrat is entitled to win. Why? Well, I voted republican because I generally have supported the ideas that the party voices. However, the name of the party is unimportant to me. What bothers me is that some seem to think you have to change the party to win. That is the moral relativism that I am talking about. That really is the vile sin that permeates American culture. The culture has made a new God and bow at the altar of plurality. Anything and everything is right in their own eyes. Inside and outside of party affiliation, there is no absolute bases to substantiate my voice. If the Republican party wants to change to moral relativism, then go ahead and do that. I will find another party or vote independent.
Some have made the statement the we use God as a ‘pawn’ in political debates. How arrogant for people to even think that God should be denigrated to a lower form than human reasoning. This again is proof that society is steeped into humanism and relativism. God cannot and will not be subject to human reasoning. He is the author of intelligence and wisdom. Why would I want to use Him as a pawn. This is just a twist of rhetoric and trying to believe that humans can solve our problems. Ultimately, for our salvation (both personally and culturally and politically) there must be the acknowledgement that there is a supreme power (God) who sets up and can take down any government he chooses. If you doubt that power, you will someday bow your knee to this supreme being. Therefore, I would rather bow in subjection to God now and promote His ideals all along the way. A political party is unimportant to me. It is God that I will faithfully raise as the answer to our problems.
Sounds like you want concede to the moral bankruptcy of our nation. The further we turn away from God, the further we will fall regardless who wins elections. Staying on God’s side is the only side to be on.
No where did I say we should abandon God, guys. My point is that we need to stop using him as a reason for doing things, like voting against gay marriage. If that’s what you believe, great. Many people do. But using that as your argument is certainly not doing our party any favors.
We believe in Life and what is “Right”.. We usually don’t talk about it until the Dems bring it up. i.e. taking away contraception. We then respond. How do you suggest we take it on then. It is, after all, what we believe. Not talking about it is like asking Dems not to talk about “Pro-Abortion” It will never happen. The bottom line.. the nation is Morally Bankrupt. The further we stray from the Word, the worse things will get.
the problem of all is this Country is Morally bankrupt. this nation is in moral declina and has been for some time. It only gets worse if we dont start showing others the way. like i said earlier we cannot force our religion on others God gave each of us free will we must show them the way through examples we give in our own lives as well spreading the Gospel of Christ through an unintrusive way. We cannot force feed these people
The election was not won or lost on our nations morality or lack thereof. You cannot make a logical case to say that the opposition is immoral or without morals. There set of mores is simply different than yours and likely mine as well. Free speech being what it is, they have both the right to their opinion and the right to change their opinion. We have the OBLIGATION to persuade them with arguments they wil accept, or grow up a generation that already believe as you do. (How many kids can you grow up to age 18 in the next four years that believe as you do?) And by persuade, I mean that we cannot compel them (force them) to believe as you do. Our rhetoric (argument) must be the only compelling force. In this case it seems that we missed getting a majority to be convinced. That being said, we must make a better and more persuasive case with reasoning that the independents and some democrats will accept in 2016. I hope we get that chance – and I hope we are ready. I believe this is what Jessica is saying – be more persuasive on terms that cannot be ignored due to lack of religious faith or moral beliefs on the part of the opposition.
I believe we have entered a period of judgment and now is not the time for compromise. I also believe a significant amount of voter fraud was utilized for the Obama win. If the election was stolen from the GOP we have a battle in front of us for the very existence of our democracy. Our founding fathers claimed victory over the strongest military force in the world at that time with a non-compromising and unwavering faith in God. God’s blessing on His people was the determining factor in our victory for independence, as well as the unbelievable victories regarding Israel. Compromise is not the road to victory but the road to hopeless defeat. The battle has already begun.
I love this, nothing could be more true.
well stated, The TalkMaster Neal Boortz said it best today and I have to totally agree with him. We (republicans) have to stop forcing our religion down on others. instead we, as instructed by god, have to live our life as an example to others. If you want to get biblical, the bible states that a man shall be know by his fruits, so if we live our lives as we claim conservitives then the other side will see our fruits and they will start to follow. Ronald Reagan once said “let us show the world not only a nation that is Militarily strong but a nation that is Moraly Strong” we are missing the boat. this nation is in a moral decline. it can only be stopped by the ones who believe they can change it and they have to change it by setting an example others can follow. Exactly as you said people do not want to hear religious arguments from our elected officials or those seeking public office, it usually just turns into political suicide and we loose great men and women who mean well but miss the point with other who just do not understand.
There is confusion among some about the difference between ethics and morality. The Left thinks they are doing the moral thing by instituting social health programs and the right thinks the opposite as an example. To make the argument without a logical, supportable argument and say it is immoral is analagous to saying to the school yard bully, “My daddy is bigger then your daddy” or “My God is bigger than your god.”
The left thinks it is moral, though unethical, to fraudulently vote. This will justify some bone-head to find ways to vote more then once because they see it as morally correct as in “the ends justifies the means.”
In order to win in the future, Jessica is saying that are logic and argument must be better, not our own vision of morality or sense of right and wrong – regardless of religion or faithful beliefs. It is fine to be a person of faith – even athiests believe in something. It is now more important to have a persuasive argument. Make the independents (and some democrats) WANT to vote for a better candidate that may happen to have an R by their name and support faith and family because it is the logical thing to do.
Leave religion out of politics… Agreed. Totally. Period. Jesus said his kingdom was “not of this world.”
But “morality” is the heart of law. Even an atheist like Ayn Rand (I’m a huge fan of Atlas Shrugged) understood that “morality” is essential to the rule of law. The killing of unborn children is immoral. Period. The GOP only exists because so many people think this party is the only expression of some part of their morality. Abandoning all social issues will not save the GOP. It will kill it. Focusing on fiscal conservatism will not save the GOP either. There are too many people and companies on the government dole. You’ll never outnumber them.
The current problem is a “moral” problem and the Democratic message resonates. Conservatarians have to start from scratch and educate people about law, human rights, crony capitalism, the Federal Reserve, the military industrial complex, etc.
I assure you that a message of fiscal austerity will go over like a lump of coal on Christmas with the electorate.
Truth is treason in the empire of lies…
Keeping God out of politics….the only way you can honestly do this is to NOT call yourself a Christian! Being a Christian is not just being religious!.There are many liberal churches around that are just that..that is why they are there!
If you try to be quiet about your faith and keep it private.. then you ignore Gods biblical command concerning the Great Commission! And you water down our faith!
As for Homosexuality..the’r issues is not a tax code..it is rather an agenda that they have to delude and dissolve marriage as it has naturally have been..to justify their sinful behavior as normal. Like it or not ..it has been and will always be contrary to Gods Biblical teachings!
Abortion is killing of a life.. no matter how you spin it, and is anti Christian totally! of which any Christian that support abortion is fooling themselves as a follower of Christ!..we should at least have established mandates in the legislator that would prohibit our Tax Dollars to be use for any type of abortion,,if not! Every time we pay our tax dollars we are contributing to the murder of babies!..Mourdock is an idiot with that view..also lets be practical about the issue concerning abortion…99.9% of abortion is done because of the innocence of having a baby..also by pedophiles who do statutory rapes of young girls and not reported by places as planned parenthood. (a documented issue)!…Killing babies has become a U.S. standard..and ignored!
The argument is not our Christian Faith..the argument is that Morality and Goodness has taken a backseat to Immorality and Lustful Preferences…..No one wants to be Bother with the truth on anything that is Good and Pure!
Lets be realistic…how long do you think our country will survive in this fashion?..Really ..how long!…Do you really think we can walk away from God and expect everything to get better?
Our country was founded on christian ideals which were part of our Constitution formed with Biblical Principles! Go ahead..run away from that.. and see how long our Republic (what’s left of it) will survived!
Our Christian Belief is NOT the problem….the denigration of our Faith and Moral standard is!..
Until we recognize..”we have a big problem”..and cry out to God..Then NOTHING we do..will accomplish anything…Only God can correct our Nation WOES!..If anyone thinks otherwise…then stop calling yourself a Christian! Call yourself instead.. a democrat!
Christianity is not a popularity contest!.
Sure you can hide your christian beliefs to win a Presidency..but at what cost?..And win with what..a lie
The prophet Daniel was an appointed to ruling positions by pagan rulers during the realm of Nebuchadnezzar, Balthazar, and Darius! You can’t get more pagan than these rulers..Yet God bless Daniel and Daniel had position and voice in these Empires!
The point i am making is..by..living accordingly to God and his Biblical mandates!
God can and will bless us..but it is up to us.
If I have to hide my faith in God and be silent to win a political post.. I rather let the Democrats get the post.. or else I will be like the democrats…a party of immorality!
GREAT POINTS Charles! I like your thinking!
Following Jessica’s logic, you would not be “hiding” your faith. You would simply stop using it as a political arguing point. She clearly said that she believes in God and the teachings of the Bible. The point is that we cannot change this country by arguing with Liberals on religious points. We must adapt to combat the enemy, the only way to do this is to take away the emotional aspect and to view it from a logical standpoint. Instead of saying that abortion is wrong because God says it is, why not find several better arguments? Saying that it is wrong simply because God says it is will not convince anyone unfortunately. This said, I also believe in God and His teachings, I am not abandoning my religion. I just realize that it will no longer work to drag religion into political arguments, it turns too many people away.
Yes, that’s precisely what I’m saying.
You’re not doing our party any favors, Charles. Chill with the exclamation points. You sound like a lunatic.
Totally agree with you Charles -as Christians we are CALLED to stand for our faith and spread the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ – which includes biblical world views. More Christians need to speak out and speak up against killing of the innocent unborn and sinful living. As Christians we are not to bury our heads in the sand but speak about what is immoral and not pleasing to God. You are right God is not going to bless this nation with a leader that believes in gay marriage and abortion. If more Christians would have come out and voted for Romney, he would be in office. We as Christians are to blame because we are allowing immorality and doing what we are called to do in the bible – bringing the unsaved, broken, and lost to HIM. Unfortunately as Christians we cannot separate abortion and gay marriage from politics because government has made it their agenda. Now we also have legalized marijuana in some states. Really? Encouraging yet more immoral behavior and more problems? Marijuana is highly addictive as is alcohol and now states are allowing that and the problems that go along with that. The problem with the country is that God is being taken out of everything and without God we have nothing. Christians and Jews need to wake up and take a stand. I vote on biblical views and who has views most closest to mine. I don’t feel right when my taxes go to pay for abortions and birth control and support of the homosexual lifestyle. This is sin in God’s eyes and as long as we have leaders that take the left view and not the God view, then God will never bless this country. And yes as Christians we are called to pray for our leaders even if we don’t agree with them and even if they go against God’s word. This last election should be a real wake up call to churches, synagogues, pastors etc that we need to be more vocal as believers.
Everything you say makes some sense, but I have to think, “How does God feel about this?” By NOT taking a stand on issues like abortion, which is NOT a religious issue but a ‘scientific’ fact that it is murdering an unborn human life in the womb, or gay marriage, which is still something we can say intuitively (not religiously) that we are uncomfortable with, does God expect Christians to COMPROMISE on these issues that God abhors instead? I don’t think so.
I don’t think you can separate God and Politics in heart and in conscience, but we can only create a slight separation by carefully choosing our words. However, even when we do, will that honestly change things if we vote anyway with our conscience and our heart? I don’t think so.
Jesus says in Mathew 7:14, “…small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”. ‘Life’ for our country may be no different. We may ALWAYS be in the minority no matter what we say and I don’t think God would be pleased if we compromised on our Godly principles by not making these key issues to God as defining.
Larry
Deborah, I’m a Republican and wanting to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ is the problem because these religious Republicans do it very aggressively. They try to impose there religion on others. The problem with this is that America is a melting pot of many different faiths and cultures and shoving a religion, that not everyone practices, down everyone’s throats pushes people away from the Republican Party. This is one reason why the party is not diverse and just a bunch of older white people. The changing demographics in America means the Republican Party must adapt or it will die. These religious Republicans have continually tried to violate the Constitution by trying to make Christianity the national religion of America. In the 1st Amendment is the Establishment Clause that says: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” This means people can practice there religion freely but it also prohibits the establishment of a national religion by Congress and the preference by the U.S. government of one religion over another. These religious Republicans have been trying to turn America into a theocracy. They think the founding fathers formed America as a theocracy but they are wrong.
Larry, that’s the problem. Governing and politics demand compromise but these very religious people cannot COMPROMISE since they are acting in the name of god.
Back in the day several Republicans warned the party about bringing religious issues into politics. One of these Republicans was former Senator Barry Goldwater. Goldwater was one of the biggest critics of the Religious Right during the 80’s and up until his death in the late 90’s.
Barry Goldwater warned the party and said that if the Republican Party brings religious issues and very religious people into the party & politics it would eventually mean the death of the Republican party and could severely damage the two party system and America. Goldwater said that these religious people are extremists, they will impose there religion on everyone and they cannot compromise since they are acting in the name of god. He was right. Right now we are seeing an eroding of the two party system and America primarily due to the Republicans. The Republicans won’t compromise on anything with the Democrats and the only way to make America better is by compromising but since Republicans won’t they have hurt America. Also since Republicans won’t compromise this creates hostility between the two parties and hurts the two party system. People who don’t compromise are usually extremists.
One of Goldwater’s quotes about the Religious Right:
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the Republican party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise. I know, I’ve tried to deal with them.”
A revise rendition……..
Keeping God out of politics….the only way you can honestly do this is to NOT call yourself a Christian! Being a Christian is not just being religious!.There are many liberal churches around that are doing just that..that’s why they are there.. to lie and confuse of what it means to be a christian!
If you try to be quiet about your faith and keep it private.. then you ignore Gods biblical command concerning the Great Commission! And then you water down our faith!
As for Homosexuality..their issues is not a tax code..it is rather an agenda that they have, to delude, and dissolve marriage as it has naturally been..to justify their sinful behavior as normal. Like it or not ..it has been, and will always be contrary to Gods Biblical teachings the homosexual lifestyle!
Abortion is killing of a life.. no matter how you spin it, And is anti Christian totally! of which any Christian that supports abortion is fooling themselves as a supposed follower of Christ!..
we should at least have established mandates in the legislator that would prohibit our Tax Dollars to be use for any type of abortion,,if not! Every time we pay our tax dollars we are contributing to the murder of babies!..Mourdock is an idiot with that view that rape is ordained of God!..also lets be practical about the issue concerning abortion…99.9% of abortion is done because of the inconvenience of having a baby..also by pedophiles who do statutory rapes of young girls and are not reported by places such as planned parenthood. (a documented issue)!…Killing babies has become a U.S. standard..and ignored!
The argument is not our Christian Faith..the argument is that Morality and Goodness has taken a backseat to Immorality and Lustful Preferences…..No one wants to be Bother with the truth on anything that is Good and Pure!
Lets be realistic…how long do you think our country will survive in this fashion?..Really ..how long!…
Do you really think we can walk away from God and expect everything to get better?
Our country was founded on christian ideals which were part of our Constitution formed with Biblical Principles! Go ahead..run away from that.. and see how long our Republic (what’s left of it) will survived!
Our Christian Belief is NOT the problem….the denigration of our Faith and Moral standard is!..
Until we recognize..”we have a big problem”..and cry out to God..Then NOTHING we do..will accomplish anything…Only God can correct our Nation WOES!.Only God can!
.If anyone thinks otherwise…then stop calling yourself a Christian! Call yourself instead.. a democrat!
Christianity is not a popularity contest!.
Sure you can hide your christian beliefs to win a Presidency..but at what cost?..And win with what..a lie?
The prophet Daniel was an appointed leader, ruling over a portion of the masses of a pagan nation during the realm of Nebuchadnezzar, Balthazar, and Darius! You can’t get more pagan than these rulers..Yet God bless Daniel and Daniel had position and voice in these Empires!
The point i am making is..by..living accordingly to God and his Biblical mandates!
God can and will bless us..but it is up to us.
If I have to hide my faith in God’ and be silent to win a political post.. I rather let the Democrats get the post.. or else I will be like the democrats…a party of immorality!
Collosians 3:17: 17 And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. (ESV)
Everything, everywhere, all the time, no matter what. I agree with this totally, but our persuasive argument to non-believers will not be acceptable to them. We can make our argument for moral behavior with a logical argument instead. We do not leave God out, we simply acknowledge that we are set apart, yet still present in this world. We have to deal with this world and the people in it as it is – not as we want it to be or believe it should be. Unbelievers without Christian faith will not accept persuasion based only on faith – a “trust me” assertion.
Be the person of faith, but make your argument persuasive based on logic and reason – not just a “because I said so” from a God in whom they do not believe.
Very well written and lucid points, Jessica. I liked a lot of what you said a lot but I think we, as Conservatives are missing a one crucial bit and that is the way our message is distorted by the Left and in particular, media in general.
It’s absolutely too easy to discount an argument (from the Left’s perspective) when you bring your values/morals and faith as causes but if we simply argue against it for logical reasons, isn’t that being as dishonest as the Left is when they proclaim they are protecting “reproductive rights”?
Most people who are staunchly pro-life, are (at this point) just trying to stave off the level of late term abortions or the public funding of those abortions because if they don’t, they are not truly living their faith.
The whole idea that Row v Wade would be overturned is a straw-man argument and pointing that out gets us nowhere. I see your reasoning but separating us from our faiths is precisely how the Left wants us to be – cut off from our values.
Where Romney went wrong was allowing the Democrats to define who he was with no answer because his he believed in being humble as his faith commands. But like us, he woke up this morning and said: “Don’t these people understand what America is all about?” The answer is “No, 50% of this country have no clue.” And for that, our way of life will forever change.
This is truly a watershed moment. The course has been forever altered and barring disaster, collapse or revolution, this nation will be markedly different when have grown older.
@Mark Douglass you have hit a bullet in the ten ring with a minor caveat. Is an argument based on logic showing lack of faith or being dishonest about our morals and values? I do not see it that way. Consider the way math was taught in the late 1960’s: they came out with the “new math.” My father (an engineer) could not explain how to formulate a division problem for my homework. The answer came out the same on his sliderule as my answer. Calculators have reduced the need for manual calculation. Does that mean that calculators were morally wrong or that slide rules were just not quite so accurate and therefor THEY were wrong.
Truth is truth wherever it is found. If logical truth is in synch with moral truth it is just so much better than being alone. The Apostle Thomas was no less an Apostle when he sought to see Jesus’ hands and side after the resurrection.
Those who are not faithful will never accept an argument based on faith. They may also have to see the hands and the side of an argument to make it real for them.
Firstly, I love the Aquinas angle and I agree that explaining a point with logic does not violate the integrity of faith, it should merely support it. I think what I was trying to say was that trying to distance our faith from our arguments for the sake of gaining popularity is not bearing witness to it. That was my only conviction.
“If logical truth is in synch with moral truth it is just so much better than being alone.” – 100% accurate and true.
Thoughtful post, thank you. Our population appears to care more about these social issues than a strong economy – doesn’t make sense to me, but maybe that is part of the problem.
I think part of her argument is that by discrediting our reasons for supporting things like abortion and traditional marriage, our other positions are being marginalized because we lend credence to our religious faith in explaining why we are for/against something.
And your comment is very revealing (as I heard this today from someone else, who I know believes in God and is right of center but…) from the perspective that center-right people truly believe that the far-Right is comparable to radical Islamists – that is, they want everyone to be baptized and adhere to a religious doctrine. I tried to explain that’s not the case at all but she immediately shut down – thus underscoring Jessica’s argument.
You are right that in this economy, you can’t understand it…I don’t think I can either because it was never a relevant issue but the Left’s voting block does not even remotely understand the issues.
Mark – I agree. I have many liberal friends and they lump the whole crew of us into Bible thumping, “Neo-cons”. Frustrates me because I am socially liberal but fiscally conservative.
hey, im Jewish and im on the right side of the spectrum. figure that one out! 🙂
“I do not think it is appropriate to use [God] as a pawn in our political arguments.” Couldn’t have said it better myself.
My $.02: The Founders were distrustful of Government sanctioned religion (e.g., the Church of England), but understood that the American Ideal still had its roots in theology – specifically that certain inalienable rights (life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness) are endowed upon us by a force greater than Government – the Creator. To argue otherwise was to default all authority to Government – precisely the opposite of the principles laid out in the Declaration of Independence.
Regarding gay marriage, conservatives have, by invoking religion, thrown away the better, more constitutionally defensible argument – that Government has a compelling interest in granting traditional marriage special recognition under law, because ONLY the union of one man and one woman can produce a biological child, and society benefits from children being raised by their biological parents, who are most likely to have the child’s best interest at heart. Such a legal, rather than theological or philosophical argument allows states to provide gay (or even polygamous) partners to enjoy some of the same benefits as traditional couples do without pursuing the scientific fiction that traditional couples are NO different from others – they are.
On abortion, I have never heard an argument in favor of abortion that does not mirror arguments in favor of slavery. The first goal of pro-choice, pro-slavery is to de-humanize the fetus/slave. This has nothing to do with God as much as morality. And protecting the defenseless is a value that enjoys support among even liberal atheists.
Unfortunately, too many people who know in their hearts that traditional marriage is different from all other unions (in its ability to produce a biological child) and that abortion is, at best, morally suspect (why not cheer gender selection, or termination of children afflicted with Down’s Syndrome?) are unable to articulate those positions in American-ese, and devolve into religious defense, which is exactly what the Founders feared, even if they arrive at the same result.
Awesome arguments. This is why I love being Right. No talking points, sincere thoughts.
Beautiful!! Pulitzer worthy!!
I agree with 96% of what you said. I disagree with taking away tax breaks for having more kids however. This is not because I have 26 of them, but because the function of the child tax credit is to reimburse you, in a way, since by having kids you are in essence funding your own retirement. I read a great article about it a few months ago in National Review. Aside from that, I agree. There needs to be separation from the personal and political opinions of many of those on the right.
I appreciate your wordpress article and I am in general agreement. As an example, why would a religious act such as marriage be appropriate for government sponsorship with a legislative bill? When I was married, I was compelled to obtain a license which made the marriage recognized as a civil union – not the other way around. Had I been the groom at a church wedding without the licensure, the civil union (and the wedding) would not have been recognized by the government. Civil actions are what comes from a court or legislature – not a pulpit. Marriage is first and foremost not an act of government, it is an act of religious faith (a “sacrament” or fuction of church liturgy) which should fall under the “separation clause” as much as school prayer.
All that is said to demonstrate my understanding and agreement with your position in your blog.
In spite of the logic for conservative (nee’ libertarian) values and principles, the broad constituency of the Republican party has presented ideas in “group speak” as much as the “other” party. Independents and Democrats have not understood that jargon any more than conservative Republicans understand the reasoning behind progressive – ism. In order to get the values and principles clearly communicated to the masses and adopted as valid ideas, we need to more effectively and adroitly transfer those principles. This needs to start now and begin at the grass roots, because our opponents have been doing this with their talking points for much longer and with more passion as a whole. My beloved conservative talk show hosts have attempted to do so, but have a tendency to talk down to those who do not understand. Instead of being educated with valuable ideas and life affirming principles, independents and democrats alike reject conservative and libertarian idaes as merely vitriole and as methods to entrap them into rejecting their “dumb” ideas. Instead and in short we must be more persuasive and provide something akin to mathematical proof.
Liberal mentality has been spewed in schools ( aka: screwls) and even some churches for many years. We cannot expect this change to happen in the time between the selection of a candidate and the election. We need to where the mantle of conservative thought graciously and be attractive to people before they will really listen. Let’s face it – the second and third most listened to radio talk show hosts can occasionally be condescending.
Thanks for your future focused blog entry. The present and the future are all we have and we must make the best of it. (Maybe more popular focused concepts like “2016” and “Atlas Shrugged” 1 and 2.) More Hillsdale College and Constitutional values classes for High schoolers that may vote in four years. Are we in synch here?
Ratabor – excellent points and I for one, agree greatly.
Great article and IMO spot on. Unless the GOP makes the changes you mention, there will be many more long depressing nights just like last night. I was not only upset about the presidential outcome, some of the state outcomes have me perplexed. We have got to change with the times…….
Though I agree with some of your points, I still have to argue that EVERY government that exists or ever existed had its laws and regulations based on theology. Even pantheistic societies had laws punishing those that believed and promoted mono-theism; Roman Empire being on of them. When a nation begins abandoning its majority-held theistic beliefs, its laws and regulations become compromised and it becomes divided and easily overthrown.
Our nation, up to six decades ago, held a fairly strong, unified theistic position on many of these hot issues today – in both parties. I think the main issue facing America today has crept up on us like a frog in a pot: our failing to educate our children in history. As the saying goes, “if you fail to learn from the past, you’re doomed to repeat it.” We have failed to teach our children what made us a mighty nation and what befell so many collapsed societies before us.
Our nation was founded with freedom of religion built in, welcoming all religious beliefs to practice freely so long as it didn’t hinder or harm others. It also came with the understanding that once the majority gives up its moral and social responsibilities of self-governance and self-control that it positions itself to fall. I believe we are quickly approaching that moment in history … unless we wake up and take responsibility for our recklessness and selfishness and stop pushing its costs upon the ignorant masses.
@Tom L. – well put. but keep in mind that we are unlikely to raise a generation of voters between now and 2016’s election cycle. We need to focus on gaining the upper hand in an argument that we have lost so far, largely because of distraction and the injection of ideals and faith which are not being accepted by the left.
Listen, you can’t keep god out of it, I’m sorry, but you can’t. Or maybe it would be better to say the instant you do, you loose.
As John Adams, pointed out, you can declare your rights, but, how are you going to defend and keep them.
The question becomes, where do your rights come from.
If they come from the government, then the government can take them away or change them at will.
The idea of declareing that these right come from God means that the government cannot take them, change them, restrict or modify them.
What has happened is that the world is full of tyrants and we have gotton lazy and don’t want to fight for them any more.
Ted Bundy killed a lot of women. After torchuring and using them for his personal pleasure. Yet there were people that fought to keep him alive because life is so precious. Why his life is worth more than, what, 35 women or so, I don’t know.
In Massachusetts they want doctors to perscribe pills so people can kill themselves. Why the hell they don’t just take the fences off the bidges, I’ll never know.
Yet a child, through no fault of his own, can be murdered without regard. We have a constitution that garauntees the right to life, liberty……
If an unborn child has no right to live them maybe we shouln’t have executed Bundy, what’s your life worth any way.
Conservatives and Republicans can get ellected any time they want. In fact they do all the time, their called RINOS.
The world has never stopped theives, rapers or murders. I don’t think that the solution is for the police to become thiefs, rapers and murderers because it’s easier to legalize crime than it is to stop it.
If you want to be a liberal be a liberal. Moderate or otherwise. There’s nothing controversile about it, in fact, we’re drowning in them.
@Ralph Baker your passion is wonderful and you make some good points, but it does not address the issue we face. You and all of us on this blog thread can be the most moral and faithful people that have ever existed and this will fall into the trap the liberals have set for us. If we cannot make our argument without relying on the concept that “our faith guides us,” then the argument will fall on deaf ears.
Remeber – “God hardened Pharoahs heart.” and Moses’ argument was not heard.
My only thought on religion and politics is that there is no reason why they should be linked at all. I expect the government to maintain basic infrastructure, to defend the borders, to provide a stable monetary system and to maintain law and order.
It is not their job to praise or glorify God or to provide venues to pray or to tell me where to pray, how to pray, what I should believe, what I should not believe or how to define a relationship with a higher power in any way. That is my business and yours too, and you may do so as you see fit in your home or your church by whatever terms you wish.
I see no conflict here. If you are told to pray by your government, then how is that prayer sincere? It’s not. It only is if it comes from you with no coercion through your own free will. A church which is built out of a statutory obligation, with taxpayer money and designed by a committee is also not a sincere expression of devotion.
This is why religion and the workings of government need to be separate. Either will corrupt the other. The role of government should be narrowly defined. It does the basic logistical work to make a society earth function. The spiritual life you lead is yours alone.
God out of politics? NO let him strike down the EVIL ones !
Remember that God is the only beiong that was never created. The “evil ones” were placed to tempt and test and torment us. When we complain about being tempted, tested and torment for our faith, it just makes them laugh.
1.) I agree with you for the most part. 🙂 And I’d like for you to consider a proposition I have in my final point.
2.) I think your idea on abortion is partially formed. We can actively stand against it without God while simultaneously conceding it to the states on behalf of freedom. For example: you cannot show when “life” begins, so you cannot say it’s not murder. Life is an inalienable right, and so until life’s beginning is scientifically established, I can’t support abortion in any form. No God involved there. No Bible. Just the Constitution and science. But like you said, it should ultimately be pushed to states via the 10th.
3.) Your gay marriage stance is perfect. If people want to live together in a legal relationship? Sure. Civil union. But don’t make churches honor it. That’s freedom.
4.) I think our real problem is conservatism. Track with me… “conservatism” isn’t a set of principles, it’s the idea of “conserving” the way things were. It just happens to be similar to classical liberalism / John Locke liberalism / libertarianism right now. So we’ve got these “religious conservatives” that have these amorphous ideas of rights and God and the Bible’s place. What we need is to realize despite what we think about God, Jesus was not a legislator. It guides us, sure. But we have GOT to be able to explain our ideas in a non-religious way if we’re going to make non-religious people abide by them. Jesus didn’t ask his apostles to make everyone pray at school. He didn’t say that everyone needs to read the Bible every day. He honored liberty and freedom, and asked us to do the same. There’s of course a level where God takes away life and will and freedom, but that’s for him to decide, not us. We honor the autonomy of others and leave the rest up to God.
5.) I think we need to regroup, consolidate, and strike contrast. We need to eschew the establishment that now wants to purge us from their ranks. I think we got too close to them. Every true conservative’s main criticism of Romney was the same — he was a bit too moderate. I love the guy, don’t get me wrong. He’s honest. But he said stuff like he was cool with taxing the rich more. Well, that happens to violate our right to property. He’s not acting off of principle and striking a contrast. We honor inalienable rights. When we lose that contrast, we fight on the ground of our opposition, and they control that ground. They can say Mitt hate’s women, and he’ll fight back on their level and say he wants equal pay. Screw that. The only solution is to laugh at that idea and say we want equality and liberty for all Americans.
6.) We need to get the Ron Paul people back in and stop hassling them. Ron Paul gets HUGE momentum on his own because he strikes a contrast. Contrast appeals to everyone, especially the disillusioned youth vote. The message of freedom is enticing to everyone, and it always has been. People have fled dictatorships and socialist regimes throughout history for a chance at the American dream. But we need to actually push FREEDOM and EQUALITY and LIBERTY and RIGHTS over abortion, gay marriage, tax debates, viewpoints on drone missiles, etc.
I’m open to being wrong, so feel free to punch my ideas in the face if they’re half-baked.
I believe each state and/or Congress has the right to simply regulate commerce. Don’t make it against the law to GET an abortion, but perhaps outlaw, or regulate the practitioners of it. Limit the profit, limit who can do it, If it was limited to board certified medical doctors and they could only charge to cover their actual out of pocket plus one dollar, that would drill the number of abortions down to the most altruistic of reasons.
No offense, but I think that’s a bad way to do it. Gross even. You’re using the power of legislation to encumber something the state has found to be free. It would be just as bad to make gay marriage more expensive so that less of them would be performed. Or to put a tax on cigarettes that is to discourage use… if it isn’t found to violate one of our rights, then I don’t think we should try to impose our moral view of it through regulation.
That being said, I’d side-step the issue for now by arguing in my state that it potentially terminates the right to life for the unborn, and so would be negligent to allow.
Morality cannot now nor, will it ever be legislated. If that was the case, why do we now fail to believe in “an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.” How about Sharia law that calls for cutting off the hand of a thief or killing an adulterer(ess.)
There are people who, in spite of any belief of others, believe that abortion is moral and that to restrict it is not. Until we devise a logical argument that countervenes we will gain modestly at contending against Roe v. Wade.
I completely agree with you. I have voted in 7 presidential elections and it amazes me every single election we argue over the same topics. It sickens me. There’s no discussion about the economy other then “talking points”. There’s no discussion about the tax code. No one offers any credible solution to our debt and how to create jobs other then the same ole same ole promise, “elect me and I will teach you to sh!t gold”. No one said a word about Benghazi or the cover up. Neither candidate knows how to dig us out of the hole we are in. The past 2 elections the best the GOP has had to offer are John McCain and Mitt Romney? Really? The GOP needs to be completely stripped down. No more of this wait your turn crap. If you are young, have ideas that work then to the head of the line you go. People are hungry for leadership and truth. You tell us what is really going on and stop treating us like morons and you demonstrate you have a backbone we’ll get behind you. Sorry to say I can’t follow someone who is spineless and I sure cant follow a socialist. Until the GOP comes to it’s senses they will lose. Good article and I enjoy your articles on twitter. Keep up the good work.
Jessica, you are spot on in your analysis of what went wrong with Romney’s campaign. I have many of the same ideas that you do. I would be on board for contributing any ideas to the forum of how we reshape the message of what we stand for and who we really are.
I am life member of the NRA, but I have had a lot of arguments about the definition of “who is the NRA”. We must optimize our message and think through all of the cultural stereotypes that hang like a weight on the Republican party.
Good Job! keep it up you have a gift & talent
I agree with most of what you said. I think the problem with the Christian Right (which I am part of) in general is that we expect non-Christians to follow our same beliefs and morals. We foolishly think that passing laws that match our belief system will make others have the same values. Rather than passing laws that devide us further we need to behave in ways that encourage others to want to follow our lead. You can’t lead by force. It never works. Lead by example and hope others follow. Take God out of the law. Let Him guide you in your life and if you are an elected official let your faith guide your decisions. But don’t let your faith BE your decision.
Fantastic post, can’t agree more. The party needs to adapt or it will become irrelevant. It already has completely lost the northeast and change has to come very soon.
*sigh* so much of the thinking in these comments is so wrong. This demonstrates the biggest problem facing conservatism. If even the conservatives don’t really understand their own ideological foundations, or have abandoned them, how can we possibly hope to sway others to our views?
First, the idea that God or religion should be separated from politics, or from public life, or public discourse is totally unAmerican. The United States was founded with a concept of Separation of Church and State, but this was a legal Separation meant to prevent the government from mandating religious practices and obervances, and to prevent any one religious group from restricting the rights of others to live out their religion in public life.
The idea of the secular state in which all religion is banished from public life or from politics and government is not American but French. The United States and France stand as two distinct solutions to the problem of how to have civil society with religion. The French solution was to banish religion from Public life. The American solution was to place equal value on the rights of all individuals and therefore equal right to practice religion, including in politics and in public life.
This is not simply a value that we should hold on to for old times sake. It is value that we should hold on to because it is absolutely CRUCIAL to the existence of our civil society. It is precisely because this value is being lost that our society is becoming more and more divided, and more and more uncivil.
Secondly, the author of the blog post is correct in one thing only, if I understand her correctly. That is this, Christians and people of faith need to stop making arguments on issues that amount to “because God said so”, or “because the bible says so”. Even if most people believe in God, as most Americans do, you still have to get them to agree that God did actually say. In other words, we as people of faith need to be able to explain and support WHY we believe what we do.
Thus the real problem is not that people bring their faith into the political scene, it is rather that they themselves don’t really understand their own faith. They are incapable of explaining why they believe as they do, and incapable of presenting a cogent defense of their positions.
The author of the blog post is wrong in her assertion that faith is not logical. On the contrary, faith and reason go together just fine. Faith is logical. It is not faith, but rather the people involved who are illogical.
The real problem with Todd Akin is not that he opposed abortion. Most Americans don’t like abortion. The real issue with Todd Akin is that his defense of his view was stupid, and totally wrong. Because Todd Akin can’t defend the pro-life view doesn’t mean that the pro-life view is illogical or indefensible. Nor does it mean that abortion is a loser issue for republicans.
Those of you who think the Republicans lost this election because of christian social conservatism are not paying attention. The big groups that supported Obama are Blacks, Latinos, young voters, and women. Blacks and Latinos are predominantly Christian and pro-life. You might make some gains among young voters and women, however, the reality is that young voters are predominantly not fiscally conservative and many lean socialist, or at least anti-capitalist, so pandering to them on abortion will make little difference.
Most of all, however, you are missing the fact this election showed clearly that the economy was a loser issue for Republicans. How can I make this claim? Obama has one of the worst records in history. The economy is bad, and even though a majority of people identified the economy as their most important concern, and even though a slight majority said they thought Romney would manage the economy better… they still voted for Obama… why?
The answer is that they believed Obama cared more about them, and that even though he might not do as well on the economy, he would work for them and their interests, while they correspondingly believed that Mitt Romney would work to benefit “the Rich”.
In other words, the primary deciding issue here was class warfare, and social justice. If you think you are going to convince these people to vote for fiscal conservatism, and personal responsibility, which they don’t believe in, when we have trouble convincing them to vote for things they actually claim to believe in, you are dreaming.
Lastly, issues like Abortion are only fundamentally religious to the degree that all human rights fundamentally depend upon religious justification philosophically. Abortion is about the most basic right in the declaration of independence. The Right to Life. If you can’t convince people to respect other people’s right to life, you are never going to convince them to respect other people’s right to property or money.
“The United States was founded with a concept of Separation of Church and State, but this was a legal Separation meant to prevent the government from mandating religious practices and obervances, and to prevent any one religious group from restricting the rights of others to live out their religion in public life.”
Your right and don’t you know the Republican Party has been trying to do something like this? Don’t you know they have been trying to shove there religious beliefs down everyone’s throats and make Christianity the national religion of America which violates the Establishment Clause in the 1st Amendment? The Religious Right has been trying to turn America into a theocracy. Some people in the Religious Right have admitted that America should be a theocracy and for some reason some of them believe America was formed as a theocracy.
One BIG thing i see missing from all this discussion…….the main stream media. They are an arm of the Democrat party and will do anything to help them against Republicans or Conservatives. Our true message never gets to the American people, without being modified or “explained” by the media. Once we can get around them, or through to them….hahaha, good luck with that…..we might have a “fair” chance of competing against the Democrats. But, until then, we just have to be true to our beliefs, remember, the truth always wins at the end, just some endings are farther away than others.
This is magnificent recognition that the media is really powerful and sways so much to the left. And I like it that you say the truth wins in the end. That is foundational and of absolute principals to be living by. This idea to change course for Republicans to “buy” votes on the premise that we accept leftist ideas will be the ruin for the party.
Actually the Republican Party does have to accept some leftist ideas or else the party will die. Haven’t you heard about the changing demographics? The future demographics do not help us at all. If we don’t change then the Democratic Party will grow much bigger while we grow much smaller.
We must attract Latinos to the party since they are the fastest growing demographic. We also should try to attract more blacks and more young adults too. The good thing is that blacks and Latinos are pretty religious and typically oppose abortion and same sex marriage and a lot of them vote based on just a couple issues.
A lot of blacks, Latinos and young adults typically care a lot about financial assistance aka welfare. Latino’s also care about immigration too.
Republicans need to start embracing the welfare state and be more lenient on immigration. Why when we talk about cutting spending do we immediately point to welfare programs? These programs help people and cutting them are more likely to do damage to the economy there is so much wasteful spending in other places in the government. Why don’t we instead keep the welfare state and shut down a bunch of these wasteful departments and slash the budgets of others. This would actually make the federal government smaller by shutting down wasteful departments. There are a lot of federal government departments. There’s also a lot of waste in the military budget. We can still be fiscally conservative and embrace the welfare state. This is called welfare capitalism. As long as we decrease spending(doesn’t matter were spending cuts come from), cut taxes, keep spending under control, lower national debt, support free trade and less regulations that’s still fiscal conservatism.
Yup. Spot-on. I am a “born-again” (oh, how I hate that description…the pretentious, self righteous connotation associated with that phrase) Christian. That said, I adopt a political philosophy of: do what you want, hurt no one, don’t bother me with it, and don’t cost me money.
So, on the issue of abortion, I believe it is an issue that is not solved through law at this point – maybe 50 years ago – but it is too pervasive, too accepted to be repealed through changing law. It requires a change in thought, a change in heart of the individual. You don’t do that by throwing God in people’s faces. You do it through prayer, through intellectual debate, compassion and reason. Love the sinner hate the sin, right? All arguments must be debated from standard reference. A believer arguing from Biblical text to a non-believer will have no positive effect, and actually will have the exact opposite effect, which we have seen.
As far as homosexuals, and their rights: I agree with you. Marriage is ordained by God, not by government. Government should create law for “civil unions” and let Churches worry about marriage. Consenting adults have discretion when it comes to engaging in homosexual lifestyles. However, this in no way condones debauched behavior in public – like Gay Pride parades where it seems acceptable to dress provocatively and engage in open sexual deviance. It seems to me that homosexuals are given a pass on egregiously deviant behavior…if you call them out on this, you are labled a homophobe.
Which leads me to…where have our good manners gone, our consideration of others? Rather it’s become, “I got mine,” “What’s in it for me,” “What makes me feel good,” “why does he/she have more”, “I have to have it now,” etc…society. A society that is becoming – perhaps already is – truly selfish and hyper-narcissistic. This is the root cause of all of our social and fiscal ills. The generation of “me” or should I say “i”. It encourages lawlessness, mediocrity, and deviance. Everyone wants equal outcomes instead of equal opportunity…equal outcomes ensuring equal misery which in some strange way is more acceptable then attaining reward for hard work. Liberty is constrained in a narcissistic egalitarian society…and tends towards servitude, tyranny to ensure equal outcomes.
So, I see where you are coming from…and I’ve thought some of the same things.
Our country opened, and opens it’s doors to people of many faiths and religious belief structures. I have nothing against religion, but if the GOP keeps trying to run God based campaigns, they are chasing away many potential voters who hold different views, but are still conservative. A simple right and wrong applies here. I don’t like abortion, it’s killing, but are we going to start throwing women who had abortions in jai? How about the spouse, boyfriend, or female friend who was holding her hand during the operation, or gave her a ride to and from the clinic…are we going to charge them as an accomplice? I think not. It’s easy, make your stand, you can say you are against abortion, but don’t think it should be outlawed. Roe v. Wade was 40 years ago, and it’s not going anywhere.
For gay marriage…who cares who the heck marries who. Leave it to the states, if they want it and vote for it, and you don’t like it…then suck it up, and if you can’t, then move.
Trust me, I’m a big conservative, and I am still trying to wrap the results of Tuesday around my brain, and it’s tough.
But Jessica is completely correct, until these two items are dropped from the political talking points and platform of the GOP, they will keep losing. Heck, they are mostly done as far as I’m concerned anyway.
I disagree. Romney’s loss had nothing to do with framing any argument, even though I am in agreement with you on most of the specific issues you state. Romney’s loss is one-fold. America is now 50% composed of two kinds of people: 1) deadbeats…those who believe they are entitled to sit on their ass and do nothing, and expect their free handout from the government. Obama knows that and his entire career has been served by bribing those that can further his career using taxpayer dollars; and 2) feeble-minded idiots…those too stupid and/or lazy to think for themselves, who are “willing” to be manipulated by both the liberal media and the lying manipulator in the White House. Obama knows that and took advantage of them by telling them repeated lies, knowing they would simply parrot what they were told.
THAT is what cost Romney the election. There was very little that he could bring to play against that situation.
There are two solutions that we as Americans should finally have the guts to embrace. First, EVERY individual should be required to pay a tax…a flat tax. It should be the same percent, regardless of income. If you make no money, you pay no tax. If it’s a flat tax, deducted before you get it, we do NOT need the IRS…a layer of government that can be disposed of immediately. The situation you addressed regarding gay marriage also goes away, because we no longer have ANY loopholes or deductions.
Second, if it’s still unpalatable to enforce “fairness”, then we make it even more fair…and simple…those who don’t pay taxes, also don’t get to vote. Under no circumstances should someone who doesn’t contribute have any say so about how the money is spent that the rest of us contribute.
@Dave D
Your thoughts are rather scattered in the way you present your position. You say there are two kinds of people and they are either “dead-beats or feeble minded idiots.” If that is true then we are truly lost and there will never be another positive change excpet for the Democrats to continue to consolidate power. By the way – which does that make you and I? – dead-beats or idiots?
The flat tax will not come into being under democrats because they are continually trying to consolidate more power and that action (flat tax) would reduce their power. They can use the current tax system to offer breaks on tax payments to those from whom they can gain more power.
The bottom line that Jessica has made so eloquently is that we must convincingly persuade enough voters away from the Dems in 2014 and 2016 to get a conservative and constitutionally focused group in place. If it can be done with the House, we can do it elsewhere. It must just be done better. And doing it will require that we do not try to justify what we do as matching our values – but matching the values needed for all americans and peoples. Keep God on his throne – not in the swamp that is U.S. politics.
I agree with your argument for the most part, but I would highly recommend a book to you about any discussion of faith outside of politics. You can read some at Amazon and decide on your own. It is Defending Your Faith by RC Sproul.
It is the best book I have read arguing about the existence of God. After all, our reason for being on this earth is to snatch people out of going to hell, not winning political races, or even to make money.
http://www.amazon.com/Defending-Your-Faith-Introduction-Apologetics/dp/1433503158/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352340421&sr=8-1&keywords=defending+your+faith
It’s not like this just turns off non-religious people. My whole family is basically old school Catholic, and actually very religious. However, they subscribe to a slightly different cultural identity with religion. To many Catholics, your faith is something you consider a private matter and you really don’t pray publicly with people you don’t know and such. It’s something which is seen as a bit tacky and cheapening your deeply personal relationship with God, which you are generally not prone to talk about a lot on a stump.
Catholics don’t ask things like whether Jesus is your personal savior, because they regard your relationship with God as being your business and something between you and Jesus that you don’t need to brag to the world about.
They also generally believe that people can intemperate scripture as they wish and ask for guidance but are not bound to be forced to follow certain passages literally.
The fact that Republicans seem to insist on everyone wearing their religion on their sleeve and being very public about their beliefs makes a lot of Catholics very uncomfortable. It’s an intrusion and the nature of the message is often warped in a message that is extremely evangelical-protestant in nature.
This is why so many Catholics feel so unwelcome and like they are being treated with hostilely. It’s not because they are nonreligious, but they don’t like being assaulted with demands that they prove it or make it a public issue.
Perhaps it’s because Catholics have historically been a minority or been subject to being pushed out of society.
In any case, it made my parents, who were lifelong republicans leave the party and it’s why most of my family, who tend to be conservative, would never join the Republican party. They do not wish to be made second class citizens for not following certain traditions of how they express their faith.
BTW: This is about 25% of the population you make very uncomfortable. Try winning an election when you write off that many.
While some of your points are valid…..your presuppositions reveal you do not understand our Republic under God and the Worldview of America’s Founders….you reflect how much Post Modernity, Gramsci and Marcuse has infiltrated our culture…..you have Great intentions but they are a path in the wrong direction and our Founders would say your a 2 legged stool…..overall I love your spirit and ideas BUT you missing an essential point as expressed in our declaration: GOD our “Creator” the “Supreme Judge of the World” is the VERY source of Life(ALL of Life) and Liberty
miss that, neglect that, ignore that and Freedom dies..as it is as we dialogue…Shalom
Jake Jacobs jjusa.org
You have absolutely no idea what the founders wanted, do you? They were very well aware of the corruption of the Church of England and founded a nation to have a limited government to serve the needs of man.
Some of the founders were deists and did not even practice the primary customs of Christianity. They all came from varying denominations and went to great lengths to understand they could only come to a common understanding by agreeing that they would not make their personal beliefs a requirement of the government.
The “Creator” is only mentioned in passing in any founding documents and there is intentionally no mention in the Constitution. Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were extremely skeptical of organized religion having any statutory power and understood how dangerous it could be.
Of the founders, most were officially protestant. This can be broken down into a large number of denominations, some of which disagreed deeply on certain aspects of religion. There were Quakers, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Unitarians, Congregationalists and Calvinists who signed Declaration of Independence and later the Constitution.
Three were Catholics. Thomas Paine, one of the most important, was a diest, who did not subscribe to traditional Christian dogma. Many were subscribers to anti-clericalism and strongly opposed attempts to use scripture to enforce law or force a certain interpretation of scripture onto the population.
Washington, Madison, Hamilton and others may be considered to be part of the movement of “Theistic rationalism” which believed in spirituality as an extension of natural philosophy. Many were members of the Freemasons, which at the time, accepted theistic debate and encouraged members to explore their own religious philosophies. The creator was used both literally and as a metaphor for the order of the universe.
All these beliefs, diverse and varied as they may have been, were accepted and understood to be practiced freely by a group of men who understood well the danger of state-mandated religion and the importance of freedom to practice as they wished.
This is not and never was a Christian nation and was conceived from the beginning as a nation were any person can peacefully serve their faith as they choose and without having to contend with others choosing the faith of the nation for them.
“I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.”
-Thomas Paine
“Every new and successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance”
-James Madison
“Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
-James Madison
“The United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion”
– The Treaty with Tripoli, as written by George Washington and John Adams.
PLEASE LEARN YOUR HISTORY!!!! Seriously, books are good. READ THEM!
I’ve been saying the same thing about gay marriage for a long time. The government should not be in the marriage business at all. Instead, any 2 people should be able to enter a legal agreement to share their property and so on. Then if people want to, they can go to their church and have their ceremonial marriage, but that ceremony itself has no legal binding.
As for abortion, we need to quit letting the left hijack our position. Most people I know are pro-life, but they’re not hellbent on making abortion illegal. All they want is a guarantee that it’s not paid for with their tax dollars. But the left automatically convinces people that we want to take away abortion all together.
I agreed wholeheartedly on your position on gay marriage. Likewise, I completely agreed that states rights need to be returned and strengthened. My issue with idealistic Libertarianism concerns abortion. Logically, i can’t get past the need to define at what point life begins. if life begins at conception – my personal belief – then by definition the Fed gets involved because of the Constitution’s guarantee of “…LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” An unborn fetus would therefore be guaranteed protection against any attack. Certainly with medical technology of today – obviously much improved in the last 200 years – then I see no logical argument for any definition of the “start of life” being between conception and actual birth. The principle laid forth in the Constitution cannot be subject to such trifles as improvement in medical science. That said, I believe a true abortion advocate (aka, “pro-choice”) must be willing to accept abortions being performed up until the time of delivery. I believe such a position when honestly considered cannot stand. Where is my logic at fault here? Thanks for any feedback. Eric N
“We’re not just gonna shoot the bastards, we’re gonna cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We’re gonna murder those lowsy bastards by the bushel.” – Gen. Patton
How Godly… statements like this are what’s wrong with the U.S. !!!
Why not try being nice to people and nice to the poor for a change rather than only ever looking out for number one? Backing tax dodging millionaires like Romney who keep their millions in Cayman Islands accounts then pretend to be able to relate to the populace – loved his quote “Oh I’m unemployed too…” with no concept of what middle income is, let alone those struggling on minimum wage.
What on earth is wrong with a healthcare system that more people in the country can benefit from? Romney himself instituted it in Mass.
Biggest hypocrisy of all time lifetime award to Mitt Romney. He may be religious but he has no reputable morals whatsoever.
Surely morality, ethics and common human decency should prevail over religion when it comes to the political arena or leadership of one of the strongest (yet divided) nations on earth. Regardless of what faith people follow (even none – OMG, even atheists), all humans should be capable of possessing morals and ethics. Those with the strongest faiths often display the least human decency to others – how Christian is it not to support the poorest in society?
You’re right – religion should be kept out of politics, yet sadly all of Mitt’s brainwashed masses keep quoting God and religion whenever they talk about his campaign. Don’t hear many Democrats preaching as such…
@Louise Carter . Whether you intended to make the point or not – you have. People who support the points that have been made in your posting is exactly why religion needs to be kept out of politics – but ethics must be emphasized. Nearly all of the things you say about Romney were Democratic or liberal talking points and they are all unethical lies. The fact that you (apparently) believe in them should tell everyone on this discussion thread that Jessica was correct: the Republicans must do a better job of making the case for our constitutionally based principles. Also, that in the minds of the masses listening, reading and watching the political discussions unfold – perception is reality whether that perception is correct or not.
Just as in the example of when Romney joked about being unemployed (because he is over a certain age and is able to live off investments rather than punch a clock due to the smart and hard work he did when younger) this minor jocularity was twisted by liberals to make it seem as if Romney was out of touch with the unemployed masses who are hurting today. Romney was not trying to actually say he knew what it was like to have no income and be stuck on some form of charity or government assistance. Yet, this was twisted to seem bad anyway.
The fact of the matter is – we truly conservative Republicans are not upset because we lost the election and must now put a checkmark in the “L” column. We are concerned because the direction our country is being led is bad for all americans and we believed that our candidate would have done a good job at changing that bad trajectory to the better.
Our country was founded by people who came here to escape the kind of regulation and tyranny which is being imposed on other countries. Government mandated healthcare policy is just one more nail in the coffin that will bury us like Europe. Soon, (March) the Obama administration will be meeting with UN officials to promote further gun-control policies across the globe. Don’t deny – it is already scheduled. Obama officials waited until after the election to schedule it so that this would not look bad before the election.
Our country was not based on rule or law creation, but on Liberty – sometimes defined as Freedom with restraint. This is essentially why libertarians use that term as their defining word. The constitution is not a document solely with the focus of restriction of human behavior, but to shape and promote liberty first, and define ways to protect it. The states (hence a republic) were expected to define laws for and against specific concerns and for the most part they do. Obama’s policies only see more and more laws restricting people and businesses.
Disrespect Romney with the lies if you like – it matters so much less now as to be silly to revisit those liberal talking points. But set your sights on liberty and ways to support it rather than restriction and ways to tighten them. That is what made the US great.
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Abortion is NOT a states rights issue any more than slavery was. If it were than your right to life is shifted from being at the whim of the Federal govt to the being at the whim of a State govt.
Without the right to be born all other rights, life, liberty, property, do not exist.
As I said here http://talonspoint.wordpress.com/2012/02/09/a-dear-ann-letter/ during the Republican primary process ; “Just because the Constitution does not exclusively grant a power to the federal government DOES NOT mean it is exclusively grants it to the state. Go dust off your copy and ponder the simple words “or to the people.” That phrase, or may I suggest “fraise,” was a reminder that certain rights were granted solely to the individual and government usurpation by the states was no less unconscionable and tyrannous to our founders than by the federal government, or a King.”
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Some things are worth fighting for, like a child’s life. What kind of society have we become when it becomes socially acceptable to suck the brains out of unwanted children ? If we don’t fight for them, who will ?
agreed. Morality is an individual choice and can still be maintained in a politician’s private life.
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The best way to fix the tax code is the Fair Tax. http://thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.25:
I’m a Republican and Mr. Conservative Barry Goldwater the former Senator who died back in the late 90’s warned us about the Religious Right. The very Religious people started gaining influence in the party during the 80’s and Goldwater said they were extremist kooks that would ruin the party if they gained control. Now they have gained the control, took the party very far right and destroyed it! The type of politics the Religious Right advocates is not Conservatism. Conservatism is limited smaller federal government, economic freedom and individual liberty. The politics the Religious Right advocates is moral fascism.
Barry Goldwater said some things about the Religious Right that are pretty prophetic. He knew they would ruin the party. Here’s some quotes from him:
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise. I know, I’ve tried to deal with them.”
“When you say “radical right” today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye.”
I am assuming now the so called Religious Right is at fault. Let’s blame them – make villains out of them. Let’s elevated Barry Goldwater, Mr. Conservative because he tried to warn us and his hatred is well documented.
Barry Goldwater probably would have voted for Obama, both of his granddaughters did. Goldwater defiantly would have supported gay marriage and his record in support of abortion is also well documented. He was very much an advocate of individual freedom and believed religious people were attempting to force their will on everyone else. I disagree and being someone the label of religious right would probably fit; I will attempt to explain.
Goldwater was a religious man, but he worshiped what the Creator created instead of the Creator.
“My mother took us to services at the Episcopal church. Yet she always said that God was not just inside the four walls of a house of worship, but everywhere — in the rising sun over Camelback Mountain in Phoenix, a splash of water along the nearby Salt or Verde rivers, or clouds driving over the Estrella Mountains, south of downtown. I’ve always thought of God in those terms.”
~Barry Goldwater
Consider what you are hearing from the news media this Christmas season. Mentally ill young adult goes to elementary school and commits mass murder before committing suicide. Man sets fire to house and lays in wait to shoot fireman. Homeless woman set on fire in Van Nuys while sleeping.
On August 1, 1966 Charles Whitman climbed 27 floors to the observation deck of The Texas Tower at The University of Texas and killed 14 people, wounded 32 others after killing his wife and mother. This shocked our nation; you can still feel the element of shock reading about this incident 46 years after it occurred. His mother was a religious woman but his father had a long history of verbal and physical abuse toward his wife and children. Since 1966 we gradually reached of approximately 4 mass killings a year but in 2012 I believe the number has reached a quantity of 7.
Please allow me to tell you the effects of one atheist, Madalyn Murray O’Hair, who was known as “The Most Hated Woman In America.” O’Hair filed many lawsuits to outlaw the reading of the Bible in public schools. She won in 1963 and it resulted in the taking down of the Ten Commandments in every classroom. The affects of this has extended to our public buildings and courthouses. Today it is acceptable to teach our children in school that families are made up of a mother and a father, or two fathers or two mothers but teaching not to steal, lie, covet or commit murder is not such a good idea. Do you think this kind of information would also be good for our elected officials to adhere to?
O’Hair went on to file lawsuits against NASA for quoting from the Bible while in space. Buzz Aldrin was therefore asked to refrain from Biblical quotes in the Apollo 11 mission. But he conducted the astronauts in a first communion in space.
Her name is not mentioned much these days but her ideology is publically praised and also “relentlessly and uncompromisingly crammed down our throats” without regard to a large percentage of the population. Interesting that O’Hair and her family living with her was murder by a person in her inner circle. Her son, William J. Murray is the chairman of the Religious Freedom Coalition and said this of his mother, “”When I was a young boy of ten or eleven years old she would come home and brag about spending the day in X-rated movie theaters in downtown Baltimore…. My mother’s whole life circulated around such things…. It was love of power over people that finally caused not only her death, but the deaths of my brother and my daughter…. My mother was an evil person.”
Let me close this with commentary from Pastor Chuck Baldwin regarding our founding documents and the Bible.
The United States of America was built upon three fundamental documents: The Declaration of Independence, The U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Taken together, these documents form the basis of all our laws, principles and heritage. To destroy the principles contained in these documents is to destroy the country.
Unfortunately, that is exactly what has been happening for many years now.
The destruction of America’s founding principles can be directly traced to the country’s willful rejection of the Bible as our source of divine authority. America has done more than expel God and the Bible from our schools; it has expelled God and the Bible from politics, commerce, and even our very way of life. Should it be any wonder then that our founding documents are also being expunged? After all, America’s founding documents are themselves predicated upon God and the Bible.
The Declaration of Independence states, “[Men] are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” It also states that these rights are “self evident” and that they constitute the “Laws of Nature.” These principles are taken directly from the Bible.
The Law of Nature can be viewed in Romans 2:14-16. That our Creator is the Author of life is seen in Genesis 2:7. That God, not government, grants liberty is seen in Galatians 5:1. The “pursuit of happiness” is found in Ecclesiastes 3:13.
Beyond that, virtually every one of the ten articles contained in the Bill of Rights has Biblical foundation. The First Amendment recognizes the natural right of freedom of speech, religion and assembly. Christians are clearly given divine instruction regarding each of these responsibilities. Our founding documents properly established a government designed to “secure these rights.” Therefore, under the First Amendment, Christians are free to preach the Gospel and to assemble for worship.
Likewise, the Second Amendment has Biblical foundation. Our Lord said in Luke 11:21, “When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace.” In Luke 22:35, 36 He said, “He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.”
Other articles contained in the Bill of Rights also have Biblical basis. For example, the Fourth Amendment comes from Deuteronomy 24:10, 11. The Eighth Amendment originates in Deuteronomy 15: 2, 3. Again, these principles are “self evident” truths which come from “the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God.”
Even America’s constitutional form of government consisting of three co-equal branches, legislative, executive and judicial is taken directly from Isaiah 33:22.
Therefore, when citizens, especially Christian citizens, allow their elected representatives to ignore or violate these founding documents, they are in essence allowing them to destroy the very basis and foundation of our country.
Christian citizens should demand that their elected leaders not merely talk like Christians, but that they actually govern like Christians. That means holding their political leaders accountable to the laws and principles contained in the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
However, elected leaders from both parties today are totally ignoring or egregiously violating the laws and principles contained in our founding documents. As such, they are helping to destroy this republic, all of their Christian rhetoric notwithstanding. But that’s not their fault-it’s ours!
Yeah both of Barry Goldwaters granddaughters voted Democratic because today the Republican party is not even close to the party it was in the past. It is so damaged and has gone so far to the right.
You said: “Likewise, the Second Amendment has Biblical foundation. Our Lord said in Luke 11:21, “When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace.” In Luke 22:35, 36 He said, “He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.”
Ok just because the second amendment allows people to be armed does not mean the founding fathers got the idea from the bible. All you did was take quotes from the bible that talk about being armed. This does not necessarily mean the founding fathers were thinking about the bible when creating the second amendment.
Yes the 1st Amendment allows people to practice there religion freely. It also prohibits the establishment of a national religion by Congress and the preference by the U.S. government of one religion over another. There is the Establishment Clause in the 1st Amendment that says: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” Today Republicans have tried to make Christianity the national religion which is against the first Amendment. They are trying to turn America into a theocracy!
It is fine to have a person with religion in government as most politicians follow a religion. In fact most voters want someone in office who is not an atheist. It is NOT fine when that religion is used to run the government simply because in order to maintain power the religion must become oppressive. A person can allow their religion to help guide their lives. But religion in the government and guiding the lives of millions, many who do not share the same faith is very oppressive! It is NOT ok for politicians to force their own beliefs on people because they are representing people of all faiths, creeds, colors and sexual orientations. It is their job to ignore their own beliefs and uphold the Constitution, even if they don’t agree with it.
And these religious Republican nuts have just taken it a little too far. Do you know about a year ago Republicans in the Michigan Senate passed a bill, with no Democratic votes, that allows people to bully others if they can provide a so-called religious or moral reason for their actions, giving the phrase, “the devil made me do it” sufficient validity. Now this is just completely insane! The Republican party has come to represent bigotry and hatred. There is absolutely no compassion in this party and that’s funny cause I thought Christians were good compassionate people. If a high school student on drugs was constantly bullied by some of their classmates because of their drug use the bullies could get out of trouble by saying my actions were appropriate since drug use is immoral. The drug user may later end up committing suicide due to all the bullying or worse go on a mass shooting spree. Most people when there young act immorally because young people are immature. These Republicans probably wouldn’t even care if a gay kid was doused with gasoline and lit on fire. These religious Republicans think immoral acts are ruining America but this bill these Republicans passed is immoral. Bullying is immoral! This bill is just another example of Republican hypocrisy and hatred.
I personally think a lot of these Christian politicians in the Republican party are very fake and selfish. They talk about getting rid of all the welfare programs that have taken a lot of people out of poverty compared to how much poverty we had several decades ago. When they cut everyone’s taxes you’d expect they would give the biggest cuts to the lower and middle class but they give the bigger cuts to the rich. The party has grown to only care about the rich and corporations. The party can’t even support equal rights for women probably because of what the very sexist bible says about women. And the parties support for Sarah Palin clearly shows how narrow minded and stupid people are in the party cause Palin knows nothing about politics or US History.
Do you know about a year ago Republicans in the Michigan Senate passed a bill, with no Democratic votes, that allows people to bully others if they can provide a so-called religious or moral reason for their actions, giving the phrase, “the devil made me do it” sufficient validity. Now this is just completely insane!
Not only insane but not quite accurate, the bill that passed the house and the senate dropped the religious language. Democrats did vote but showed very weakly.
The Republican party has come to represent bigotry and hatred. There is absolutely no compassion in this party and that’s funny cause I thought Christians were good compassionate people.
Can you give me examples of republican bigotry and hatred? Please use examples that democrats have not also been guilty of meaning individuals making nasty comments but platform policies that represent bigotry and hatred. Also don’t use civil rights or slave owning – from the reconstruction era until the late sixty’s the south was a democratic voting block. Hate-mongers can always find a reason to hate other Americans–even if they have to invent the reason. And there is good cause to continue the practice so long as bigoted anger gets results at the voting booth.
I personally think a lot of these Christian politicians in the Republican party are very fake and selfish. They talk about getting rid of all the welfare programs that have taken a lot of people out of poverty compared to how much poverty we had several decades ago. When they cut everyone’s taxes you’d expect they would give the biggest cuts to the lower and middle class but they give the bigger cuts to the rich.
Isn’t it strange that these middle class tax cuts we will be losing on Jan 01 are called the Bush Tax Cuts and the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act was signed into law by President Bill Clinton (democrat) on August 22, 1996 fulfilling his 1992 campaign promise?
The following is a quote from Ronald Regan, 40th U.S. president
“We are a nation under God. I’ve always believed that his blessed land was set apart in a special way, that some divine plan placed this great continent here between the oceans to be found by people from every corner of the Earth who had a special love for freedom and the courage to uproot themselves, leave homeland and friends, to come to a strange land. And coming here they created something new in all the history of mankind – a land where man is not beholden to government, government is beholden to man.
George Washington believed that religion, morality, and brotherhood were the pillars of society. He said you could not have morality without religion. And yet today, we’re told that to protect the first amendment, we must expel God, the source of all knowledge, from our children’s classrooms. Well pardon me, but the first amendment was not written to protect the American people from religion; the first amendment was written to protect the American people from government tyranny.”
I am not sure if I have been talking to a democrat or a republican but feel sure I am talking to someone who has no respect for God or Christians. I am enclosing founding fathers quotes on the Bible and their thoughts on how important God and Jesus are to our lives.
“It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.”
~George Washington, 1st U.S. president
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event.”
~Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. president, drafter and Signer of the Declaration of Independence
“I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ.”
~Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. president, drafter and Signer of the Declaration of Independence
“The Bible contains the most profound Philosophy, the most perfect Morality, and the most refined Policy, that ever was conceived upon earth. It is the most Republican Book in the World, and therefore I will still revere it.”
~John Adams, 2nd U.S. president and Signer of the Declaration of Independence
“He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all . . . . Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.”
~Samuel Adams, Massachusetts delegate to the Continental Congress, Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Father of the American Revolution
“In forming and settling my Belief relative to the Doctrines of Christianity, I adopted no Articles from Creeds, but such only as on careful Examination I found to be confirmed by the Bible.”
~John Jay, president of the Continental Congress & 1st chief justice of the U.S. Supreme Court
“I have always said, and always will say, that the studious perusal of the Sacred Volume will make better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands.”
~Thomas Jefferson, 3rd U.S. president, drafter and Signer of the Declaration of Independence
“Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God … What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be.”
~John Adams, 2nd U.S. president and Signer of the Declaration of Independence
“Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. … Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us.”
~ John Hancock, 1st Signer of the Declaration of Independence
“The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence. Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System.”
~John Adams, 2nd U.S. president and Signer of the Declaration of Independence
“And as it is our duty to extend our wishes to the happiness of the great family of man, I conceive that we cannot better express ourselves than by humbly supplicating the Supreme Ruler of the world that the rod of tyrants may be broken to pieces, and the oppressed made free again; that wars may cease in all the earth, and that the confusions that are and have been among nations may be overruled by promoting and speedily bringing on that holy and happy period when the kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ may be everywhere established, and all people everywhere willingly bow to the sceptre of Him who is Prince of Peace.”
~Samuel Adams, Massachusetts delegate to the Continental Congress, Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Father of the American Revolution
“I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man.”
~ Alexander Hamilton, Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution
“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”
“The Bible … is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed.”
~ Patrick Henry, Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution
I’m not sure I agree that we need God further out of political discourse, but I think far too often, people resort to “because God said so” because they’re not intellectual enough to discuss things on the terms of the ‘godless’ they are discussing things with.
Let’s face it, liberals believe the government is god. They believe the ‘inalienable rights’ are the government’s to give and take away, they believe they need to be in charge of everyone’s lives (which is something that God patently does NOT do). For any commandment God has given us, there was a reason behind it that can be verified by science and common sense. Too many people that only care to read enough of the Bible to argue about it pretend to be experts without talking to the author.
For example, how would you like me interpreting your blog to someone? I take into the reading my preconceptions and feelings and ideas and can twist your words into ways you never thought. Now, with any interpretation of scripture, there’s going to be a little of that, however, when reading the Bible to find Truth, there needs to be time spent after reading discussing it with Him. God commanded the Israelites not to eat shellfish and pigs, but that was while they were marching every day through the desert for 40 years. Proper preparation to prevent illness from the said foods wasn’t available. That may have been a reason, another may have been how pigs live (rather dirty, in their own feces, eating anything). Later, Jesus tells them that what they’re putting inside their body isn’t as important as what’s going in their ‘heart’, their mind. A white-washed tomb is still a tomb.
I’ve got more to say, but I don’t know if I’d say it clearly enough and want this to be more of a conversation than a novel.
God bless,
Keenan
Reblogged this on lidsamy and commented:
This is more important now than it was 18 months ago.